Redefined is hosted by me, Zainab Salbi, and brought to you by FindCenter, a search engine for your soul. Part library, part temple, FindCenter presents a world of wisdom, organized. Check it out today at www.findcenter.com, and please subscribe to Redefined for free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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What’s most important about life? What is the essence of life? Is it what we do? How much we earn? How many social media followers we have? Or is it, do we live our lives in kindness to ourselves and to others? Do we live our lives in love to ourselves and to others? In nearly losing my life, I was confronted with these questions and it led me to the conversations that make up Redefined, about how we draw our inner maps and the pursuit of meaningful, personal change.

Extreme childhood poverty, crime, sexual abuse, and drug abuse are only some of the things my guest today, Kennedy Odede, has overcome. Growing up in Kibera, one of Africa’s largest urban slums, and one of Kenya’s most difficult places to live, Kennedy simply did what he could to survive. He was a child hanging on to hope as best as he could. Ultimately, Kennedy found resolve in great books, in developing a relationship with God, and in the discovery that giving to others would give purpose to his life.

In 2004, at the age of twenty, Kennedy founded Shining Hope for Communities, to uplift the youth and families of Kibera and to provide kids just like him with a safe and nurturing path towards a life of hope and opportunity. Kennedy could create for others the childhood he could never have. Now, thirty-eight years old, Kennedy is the New York Times bestselling coauthor of Find Me Unafraid: Love, Loss, and Hope in an African Slum. And he has been recognized for his humanitarian work by the Obama Foundation, the Aspen Institute, and many, many more. He is one of the most inspiring, dedicated, and important leaders working today. And the story and the impact of his transformative moments are some of the most profound I have ever heard. Please join me for this very special episode of Redefined.

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I do want to start with a visit I had to Kibera, and to particularly see your work in Kibera, which is the biggest slums of Africa. And you were not there, your organization’s team took me there and showed me your work. And I remember, Kennedy, saying, “Oh—my—God, this is so good. And this is by far better than the work I have done with the poorest of the poor in conflict areas.” And I say that with emphasis, it’s a big deal. It’s a big deal to admire someone else’s work, but to say, it’s better than my work, [laughs] which I have poured my heart and soul into it.

It is why I admire you so much, you know that. [laughs]

Right? To say, this man’s work is better, and I so admire him. And so, with this, I really wanted to start the conversation, Kennedy. And for those who don’t know you, can you share with me how your life started in Kibera?

I have a really complicated story. It’s a story of struggle, pain, and also joy. So my family came from their village up-country, Western Kenya, coming to look for opportunity. So they came, they ended up in the Kibera slum. There was no job. So, Kibera became my home. And well, we had almost . . . eight kids, I’m the eldest one. And then life was really tough.

I have a stepdad, and that was tough. Sometimes I felt abused, and I was looking for belonging, so I felt so lonely. I also went, because of the struggle, so I left the house at the age of ten. So I became the street boy. So I start eating from the garbage, stealing, mostly from women. I always ask for forgiveness.

How did you leave the street?

Wow, it’s a long story, but I’ll make it shorter. Well, first of all, I met a priest. Those who know me, I’m a funny guy, character. So I used to pretend that I want to speak like Europeans or Americans, you see? So we used to admire the accent. So there’s this priest, and I used to hold my nose and say, “How are you?” They say, “What are you saying?” I’m like, “I’m speaking like a white man.” [laughs as if the priest is laughing] And they were like, “No, we don’t speak like that, Kennedy. We don’t speak like that.” I say, “Oh.” “What is your name?” “My name’s Kennedy.” And so through him, really helped me a lot. So we became real [inaudible 00:06:17] through that fun. And I say that, oh, you are not speaking English? Yes. So you have to go to school. So anyway, so there was a nearby school that they had, mission were running, in a place called Laini Saba, in Kibera.

So through there. But then I went in and they were teaching maths. So what then happened to me, I run away again. And I say, “Father, you a liar. You told me I’ll speak English but the teacher was teaching maths.” And then he look in my eye and say, “Kennedy, one day you’ll have a big company, and people will try to cheat on you because you don’t understand maths. So you have to know that.”

I was like, wow, okay. That’s how you run a company. So that really became to me, that’s how I went back. Of course, he left and I was kicked out again. But there now I’m back in the community and now surviving, working all jobs, like factories, like that. But I really question myself about the future.

Well, before you go there, before you go there, I have a few questions, if you don’t mind? One is, because we’re still with the priest and you’re still at the Catholic school basically, now you’re going. And as I understand from reading your book, is it that same priest who molested you or someone else?

No. It’s someone else.

Someone else?

Yes.

Also a priest who molested you?

Yes. Yes.

So you felt betrayed basically? What did you feel? I mean, when the person who was helping you, not the same guy, but someone else is helping you, is also abusing you, sort of like your stepfather, who is your stepfather, but abusing you in a different way. How did it make you feel?

So first of all, what I was made to believe was our Church was a place you go for forgiveness, the same priest. And community, nobody’d ever believe you if you say anything about the priest, they were together. So, and . . . it is confusing because I didn’t understand what is molestation. I didn’t understand what does this man want with this small boy? What is going on here? But my body is being touched and all this is happening to me. Like, hey! You know?

So I really got a little bit traumatized, tried to figure out fast. But I think nature is amazing. You know there’s something bad is being done to you, right? But you don’t know, so you get tortured mentally. I am not . . . what am I? What is this person doing with me? What is this?

Because you don’t understand what it is, but you’re just in pain.

Yes. You get? Yes. About the pain. The pain that I had for very, very long, long, long, long time. So then I was so desperate. So my reaction was to hold something in me that I didn’t tell my family, was to leave the Church.

And the school, did that entail leaving the school as well, because you were at school?

I left the school because of school fees. But the thing that really happened to me was . . . That was the saddest moment in life, more than the street life. You know why? Because there’s nothing beautiful than believing in your Church and your God, I’ll be honest with you. Even though I’m poor, like yes! You know what I mean? And then the Church was also a community, you know what I mean?

And then believe me, and I love the idea that God loves the poor. You get it? I was so much proud about it. You know? The rich man, the needle world, all this. You cannot go there, but to get to the heaven. And Church really give something called hope, let’s be honest. There’s something about that. You are struggling but you are, yes, I’m going to parish. Yes. You know what I mean? We sing and there’s this joy in you. Even though you are struggling, although you are poor, same idea. That’s gone.

Because the betrayal happens in that very same place for hope and love, basically. Wow. Oof.

And I can pray and I can go to the priest, tell everything. And of course you used to mess up in our community. You can do something bad. You go to Sunday or tell the priest and you’re forgiven. [claps] And you think, yay. You know what I mean? All right. Your chance to do that, is the one with is a Catholic. I know I going to be changed. So you feel like in that moment, his role really make you feel like, phew! I can move on again in life, see? So anyway, so for me, that was taken away. So now poverty, struggle, and no rock, or nothing to hold.

Were you in touch with your family at the same time? I mean, you were, I know out of the house.

Yes. Yes, of course.

Yes, you were.

But they don’t know. They don’t know.

They don’t know. And then I remember a story, Kennedy, that really stayed with me. And I wonder if you—

About the tree?

About that tree.

[laughs]

Because you have that beautiful relationship and I’d love to understand more about that relationship with God, right? So when everything is taken away from you, right? In this case, you left your family. You don’t have food, you’re struggling to eat, you’re sleeping in the street. Then the very institute that helps you, the Church, then hurts you as well. What was that relationship with God? Did you keep it, did you leave it? Well, tell me more about it actually.

So anyway, so I read a lot of books on Dr. King, Rosa Parks, the really inspiring people in my life. Nelson Mandela. So what happened, for me is a really tough life for me, Zainab. You know why? I’m trying to come out from this hopeless, hopeless, hopeless, altogether. To a little bit of hope, whereby can I feel like, there’s this Church, you are part of this youth group or teenage group, whatever. We worship together. And then that really crashing. [claps] And I still have a problem with it. I wouldn’t lie to you. I was trading drugs. I did drugs, alcohol. So I’m trying to leave it a little bit and trying to live a normal life of the community, right? So what happened with to my [inaudible 00:12:58]? I went back [claps] even worse to where I was before. I wanted to be high all the time, drunk. Any type of drugs, I used. I didn’t want to have a feeling. There is a place that was my hope, and I felt wanted. We are a community. Part of this community of God and hope. And then you know something, Zainab? People don’t know. “Oh, Padre. Oh yay, man of God, yay.” And then there are some things we don’t talk about it. So you hate yourself, and you blame yourself. Oh maybe this person blame their self. “Why did I do this?”

So for me to survive that: drugs. You get it? I don’t want to be awake. You get it? So I want to just be wasted all the time. Wasted, wasted, wasted. So I did a lot of wasting for a long time, you know? Then, oh my God. This is something I love. So, my struggle, I don’t think about helping community. I’m just useless. I was useless, and I think I could have died, honestly, because life is what? What am I living for life? If I thought I’m making it, now I’m getting down.

So then, one day I was sitting . . . I won’t forget that. In Kibera, there was a high hill. I look out of Kibera, you can see Kibera like this, so I used to go there sometimes just to meditate and just be lonely. And I’m really thinking about my life and how my life is. How do me? I’m tired. And then this wind, I’m not kidding you. [makes strong vwoo-vwoo windy sounds] And I’m like, “Something’s waking me up in my thoughts.” And the leaves are falling and the woods are moving.

Then something talks to me, it’s true. There is God. [laughs] You can’t touch it, you will feel it. And the wind, as the wind goes like this, I’m like, “Yeah, it’s very interesting.” And it goes out only tied to the Church. It is anew. Get it? And I think for me, then that was for me, that was a game-changer of my life. You know what I mean? Knowing that I can be kind. It will get on. Leave the place alone, leave the Church alone, you know? You. You can be your temple.

Wow. Wow. Yeah.

So that is it, and I got that. And I think that’s really the path of Shofco. [laughs]

Wow, wow. That’s a beautiful story. I have goosebumps all over, you know, when you talk. And tears. So then, I mean, I remember you saying . . . I remember, and correct me if I’m wrong, that you said, “God, why are you doing this to me?” And I remember you’re saying, “I am doing this to you so may know what it feels to be in poverty. And so you may one day do something about it.” Yes?

This very exactly. I sometimes have to share you this story. So, and then I don’t want to cry, but Zainab, it’s really true. When I was going to give up, I was tired, I’m like, “Why we have to go through this? Why?” And you hear God, you hear that inner voice. And let’s be honest here, Zainab. We learn about our God. I believe depend on how you call it God, you call it whatever, you know? But I hear that. Yes, in me.

”But how will you be part of the change if you don’t understand this pain you’re going through now?”

Yeah, yeah.

So now for me now, I feel it, but I don’t know how to make a move. And for a couple of time, I thought of crazy ideas because I really fell in love with stories of Martin Luther King Jr. And I really read, I know I think even more than Americans. Too much about him. All the books, my dear! I read that man! I read! [claps] You know? I could talk to him. I’m crazy, talking to these people, you know? [laughs]

I understand. I really do.

In my head, you know? Then I thought, “I can’t do this. It’s no good for me.” So, because we all really, the man for me that . . . King lived a live of purpose, but this truth be told, how? So I found out. The people of Calla, Black community, were having . . . They felt isolated. They felt nobody care about them. And there was a church in Alabama, right? Montgomery, somewhere there. Used to go there and this man, preaching. He was not famous. I don’t know, I come to my readings. Maybe my reading’s wrong. He’s not famous by then. Aye! [claps]

And then this thing became bigger than the Church. And they’re like, “Wow.” And people talk about him like, “Yeah, yeah. Hey, that man. Hey, the reverend.” Then they talk about other people like, “There’s a man here. He is called Dr. King. He is really, he’s paragon, you know?” And was invited to have other speak. And then the America really were like, “Whoa. Here is the man, right?” But he came from his spiritual life, doesn’t want to do much for this small community. And it grew, boom! That’s according to my books that I read. Maybe, okay?

So now I’m like, “Kennedy, what is my church?” So, he found something that was uniting people. That’s charge. What is that thing that will bring us together in Kibera? Some idea, I didn’t have no answers so I was going to work in the factory, I’m still thinking, “How to do something?” Not like Dr. King, but a small Dr. King. Small, so that will really bring people together. That is when I got it! Soccer ball! We love soccer! The Black Americans in that area, church was everything. You know, they still do that. You know what? They go to church, there is power. They go out, they’re being abused. “It’s okay. Sunday will come, we’ll go to our church!” And within that church [crosstalk 00:19:25], there’s love. There is that, you know? So for me, with our poverty we love soccer. So, Shofco, my organization, was founded with a twenty cent soccer ball and then Shofco became bigger than the soccer.

So, I just want to understand, in that time you stop alcohol and drugs, you change your life, you get into reading. You’re working now in a factory, so you’re now living in a place. You’re no longer in the streets, basically. You buy a soccer ball for twenty cents. You then take it back to the community and you decide to focus on women and children. Tell me what you do. What do you do with that soccer ball?

So, okay. It sounds very simple, easy. I never, people be like, “Kennedy, no, no. Don’t make it simple like that.” The truth is, people fought me and I would even, my stepdad, other people. People look at me, “Why you so stupid? Keep working the factory. You’re earning your few cents. Work there.”

And I saw that this is how I spoke to the books that I read of people like Rosa Parks. And for me, Zainab, I take things literally and people, up til now, you know? [laughs] Things for me are literal, you know? So, Rosa Parks sitting, she used to sit that back seat. I love that part. She used to sit there, but one day enough is enough. It’s my life. Kennedy used to have the drugs. Drug: enough is enough. You have to say, “Enough is enough.” If you are tired in a relationship, if you are tired without a job, you have to start saying, “Enough is enough.” And when you hit the wall, you will be thrown up. Yeah?

So, that little idea, Rosa Parks one day said, “No, I cannot sit there. I cannot, I cannot.” Which is amazing because people are like, “Always this lady going to sit there. What’s wrong today? That’s your place!” So I still have to say that, “No, this is not my place, this poverty. No. There’s a future.” And I was told, “Kennedy, NGO’s are writing proposals. You can’t even speak good English. [laughs] Never you’re the writer. You don’t understand NGO-ese for Zoom, which means for the Western people.” You get it?

”All day on Zoom with you? Who will give us? And I didn’t feel bad. I said, “No. We are part of a movement and a movement is formed when we feel the pain and we are saying that we have reached the one. Nobody can save us, but it’s only [inaudible 00:22:18] ourself. We don’t need any foreigner to help us to clean our street. Look at the street. We don’t need any foreigner to tell us not to live this evil life of women being beaten, girls being raped. No way! We are a civilized human being. We are the one. We don’t need a proposal for that. We can.”

And I did that, and that really reached people like boom. [claps] And you could see their face like, “Wow.” Huh? So this is not an NGO, it’s a movement. Like, “Whoa,” you know? So it was a journey of fighting. People were like, “Okay, we’ll see how long they’re going to go.” You know what I mean? And even Shofco, the word Shofco that is now famous in Kenya, Shofco’s not a name that I wanted. I wanted the word called Shining Hope for Communities because we still made hope. Hope for the communities. People want it to be Kibera, I say, “No. This is bigger than Kibera.” You get it? [laughs]

It’s about hope. It’s like the shining hope in yourself basically. Yeah.

So when the name Shining Hope came, and we used to do our local marketing strategy in the slum. So, our people are women. Women who are [inaudible 00:23:28] the road. We go in and say, “Hey, the movement is called Shining Hope for Communities.” And they say, “Kennedy! Too much English. We don’t like it.” And I went back to my room and I cried because I loved the name. And I cried and I cried, and I had to go play with the names. S-H-O-F-C-O. Okay, maybe I’ll hide this there and call it Shofco, I know it’s Shining Hope For Community!

[laughs]

So we went back and said, “Hey, what about Shofco?” ”Shofco? Sawa! We love that.”

Sawa?! [laughs] Does it mean anything in Swahili, Shofco?

No.

No? Nothing. You made the word?

I was like, it’s easier. Shofco! [laughs]

Yeah, yeah. But tell me, what did you do with that soccer? How did this started? You buy the soccer for twenty cents. The soccer ball, I’m sorry. And you say, “I’m going to do Shining Hope for Community,” and it starts with literally a soccer ball. What does that mean?

So, we’re doing tournaments.

You did tournaments? Okay.

Tournaments, playing, [inaudible 00:24:28] up there near the tree. We just played, people are laughing, having fun. This group from this area to the other group of Kibera, and it’s getting there. And then they’re like, “Okay, before the soccer we want to talk about our life.” You go around. “What do you want from this?”

Because you are like, other story there that I didn’t talk about. So one of my best, close friend hanged himself before this thing was started. So what I did, Calves, he’d been looking for me. And you know, the way, “I’ll see you man. I’m so [inaudible 00:25:06].” Yeah, you know, and let’s talk. We need to talk. I did. So, part of me felt like I could have saved him from dying. Right? So, when we all could meet, my idea was that we cannot suffer by ourselves. I think Zainab, that I was ahead of my time by then. I think I was doing a little bit of called mental health by then, without knowing, okay?

Yeah, yeah.

I think so. I think that’s what I was doing. So they’re like, “Hey, Calves left us. What are we struggling with? What are the trials in our life?” So in factory, I could bring the factory job, went to a job as cleaning women, girls. “Hey in the factory there, they need women to this job.” You know? So it became a network. “I’m being abused by my mother. Also being by my father. This is what I do. I don’t stay near them, I have my own—” you know? So it became, it was amazing. We all come, like fifteen people, twenty people. We sit down in the field with women too and boys and girls and share our struggle. And we get the answers from the crowd there. Even me, I was abused and I did this. Everything I’m going through this, I’m going through this. You know?

So it become a really strong supportive group. Then it grew and it grew and it became bigger and bigger. And we didn’t have any money so we were helping people with small things. For me, when you want to do something, even for your life or a company or whatever, what I learned from my life, my dear, is that don’t put yourself to fail. From the beginning, no failing. It’s good to fail. So give yourself baby step. [laughs]

Ah, okay. Okay.

You can fail. We’ll fail for sure, I know. But you should not be the first. So we clean the street. How you feel when clean the street? Ooh, it feels so good. We do this, so people try to chew too much. I want to do this! I’m like, I’m not part of that. I’m like, I get it.

Uh-huh [affirmative].

I believe, I just told you, I wouldn’t stop my drugs. I told you that. Remember?

Yeah.

I say, I will not stop it. I was like, you know I take a lot of things. I’m going to reduce them. And that’s how my life was. So even I was realistic. So if I take, tomorrow, I’m reducing. If again, I’m using until I’m like, now I can leave it all. So it become a journey.

Yeah. Yeah.

People want to fly, but you have to walk.

So it’s beautiful. Beautiful, truly. And I mean, hearing you just like, I’m thinking, this is why your work is better than any work I’ve seen. It’s because it’s anchored in the reality of the hope and the integrity of the people of that community. The integrity, because a lot of times when foreigners go to somewhere else, they give what they think is needed but it’s not from the integrity, the soulful integrity of the people in that community. And I’m not criticizing us here as much as processing how, why your work is one of the most amazing work I’ve seen.

Now, your wife, Jessica, came in in that time, or sometimes around that time, now you are mobilizing. Now you are getting a group of people, all of them with injured stories, with pain. And then together you are shaping a story of hope, cleaning the streets, doing this, doing soccer tournaments. Jessica is an American, white, Jewish woman who came to an internship, I believe in Kenya. And then rather than go somewhere else, she decided to come to the slums of Kibera and stay there. Tell me that story. I want to know about that love story, how it forged.

So those who know me will tell you this, this is an interesting story. They don’t believe me up to now, in Kibera. Nobody knew I will marry American or a white woman. You see? Because I was this guy telling people like, “No! Kibera for Kiberans, we are living this, we have to change. There’s no donors. There’s nobody like white person coming here.” I was the guy or . . . And then, I call this—people that listen to this thing I know is a free space that I can say many things that are personal because the people listen to this, is really is deep. So spiritual life, Jessica also came through a spiritual journey. I’ll be honest with you. So I had a dream. Yes. I’m giving you too much information. And this dream was a river. There’s a small river in Kibera, kind of a [inaudible 00:29:55]. And Jessica was the other side and bringing a hand for me to cross the river together to the side. She was wearing a flowery dress with red. Okay. Still love it in my head. The picture.

This is before you met her, that dream?

No, I didn’t met her. No.

Okay. Oh, okay. Wow.

And then, yeah. Amazing. But then I say, no, I don’t want you. Don’t bring your hand. And then I hear the voice again in the dream, “That’s your partner.” I say, “No, no, no, no! Black man, Black man God.!  You know me!” [laughs] Black. So my philosophy was really community. “No, no, no, no. I don’t want any foreigner.” And it start say, “Listen to me.” And this voice is forcing me. And then I cross over with her. The dream is a [inaudible 00:30:57]. A couple of years or months, I don’t remember, one of my best friend saw Jessica when now just working in Sofco, somewhere in our small office. Because I used to tell my friend everything. He say, “Kennedy, remember the dream, the dress of flowers. Look at that dress.” And I say, “Holy cow, it is that!” Already I met Jessica before but I didn’t really connect with the dream.

Yeah. Because she’s now interning in her summer vacation from college, basically.

Yeah. Yeah. So now that’s the connection. So now let’s take you back. So I got Jessica email asking to come to volunteer with us and I say, no, we don’t take . . . what are you going to offer? You are young, white girl. Sorry. Thank you so much. We don’t take people here. But Jessica, something about her, she didn’t give up. She keep on sending, again another email. “I am into theater. I really want to work with you.” So we are doing theaters, remember? Then I told her, okay, we have a cabinet, which is true, [inaudible 00:32:06] cabinet. I was the mayor. I had my cabinet for theater, sports. It was amazing. Clean up. You know what? We were crazy kids. I say, okay, send me your resumé. [laughs] Can you believe? And I printed it. I did it with our cabinet meeting and I say, okay, I don’t know this lady, she’s still stubborn, but we are doing theater. We don’t write our stories. Can we use her to help us write our theater stories so we can have a file? So our children will be able to see what we’ve been performing.

Because right now your work is mobilizing all these community members.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

And it’s like this is happening right now. Okay.

Yes. So then they approve it, the voting. I really believe in that. Yeah. It’s true, I’m not kidding. I couldn’t say anything else. Just approve. She was approved to come. I told her, okay. And then she came. The agreement was that she not going to come to Kibera, she going to just work with us, go to live in rich place where she used to live. Okay. Then one day she’s like, no, I don’t feel comfortable. I want to be. I’m like, no! So she really forced herself. But she cannot just work with us there. And yeah. So that’s how we met.

The story, how did we in love? So one day she got sick, and I thought she was going to die and I’m still spiritual man. And then I took her to the hospital. She was very skinny. Skinny of, not as American skinny, but skinny of death. Right? And I thought she going to die. So I walk to the hospital, and I say, you know what? I never told her that I’m in love with her. That will be bad for me if the spirit goes away, not knowing the truth. So I went to her bed, she was sleeping. I say, “I love you.” When she woke up, I ran away from the door. [both laugh] I ran. I wanted to be at peace. If she dies, she knows that she knew I loved her. I knew she was going to die. I love that peace, I told her.

Yeah.

Can you believe somebody died, I’m like, oh my God, I was in love with her. I never told her. I think I would be haunted. I don’t want to lose a [inaudible 00:34:08] with my friend who killed himself.

Yeah.

Who never spoke with me because I was busy. So I say this case, let it be clear. Even if she die, she knows. And me I’ll be at peace. So that’s how I told anyway. But story of Jessica and me also is a story of partnership whereby there is no superiority. We are all equal. And I believe we can all have that kind of change in communities. So what are you bring on the table and I have to appreciate what the luck is also bringing. And most of the time Zainab, is in the development. That’s why I call it, we have to decolonize development, is a colonial mindset. We are coming to save you. You’re being saved. You have nothing. You have nothing. You are primitive. That’s why you’re being saved. Right? But we are coming to partner with you. You have this, nobody want to count and I probably don’t want to count. Honestly say we have this story and I can feel the pain here. When I talk about my life on the street, where with no food, working the [inaudible 00:35:09]. In the development of today, that struggle doesn’t want to be listened to. And for me that’s a very golden experience.

Absolutely.

People are getting to Harvard, Yale. No. What they want you to believe is somebody came from Harvard, Yale, Ivy League, America university coming to save Africa and they should get funding. But somebody will live in that community. We don’t care about that experience, cultural experience. All those things should not be counted. Even in the matrix and the evaluation. No, is this Western person global north saving the global south. So Zainab, I’ve been fighting that so much. Now that I feel I have learned from the West, I’ve been there. [laughs] Now I—

Well, let’s talk about learning from the West because that’s a very important experience. You fall in love with Jessica. I don’t know if you get married before or after, but she was going to Wesleyan School . . . University, and you apply there and you get a scholarship to go to Wesleyan and study in America. I am dying to hear your first impressions when you go, or rather when you come to the States. I mean that’s a different universe. What were your impressions? And what did America teach you?

Wow. Zainab, I saw wealthy of the wealthiest. And I saw how most of them were empty. And then here in Kibera poverty, man. We really can measure it. Ah, it’s beautiful. I can knock this door. [knocks wood] Yeah, we can chill. You can see [inaudible 00:36:55] in that peace. You don’t have much money in account. You don’t know how it’s going to crash or don’t care about that. But we still believe you’re like, whoa, if you have money, oh my God. That’s the best life. And then here, Zainab, I’m in this place with people with a lot of money. And I’m like, wow, God, you opened my eye. All this mean nothing. If you . . . okay? And happiness, it is not money. It’s not material. It is not connection, who you know. At the end of the day, you’ll sleep in your bed alone. There will be no Zainab there, [inaudible 00:37:22] there, who want there to please you? You are alone. There’s no bodyguard. There’s no servants. Yeah. So you have to deal it a lot. So what I learned is that how can you be content, Kennedy?

And that’s why my idea, I change. I was supposed to, I wouldn’t lie you. I was about to make, I also console myself. I want to go make a lot of money, heal my community. [claps] I was going for, I was going to happen. I got a chance there. So my plan was now to make. So I ask in the US, where, what, how do you make a lot of money? [laughs] You see? How do you make a lot money, and they told me like business, you should have got a lawyer, for business lawyer. Whoa, you make a deal. I saying, I got letters. I’m going to happen. Law school, my friend, not to do anything—and I was guilty—I’m going to make a lot of money. I’m going to help my community.

Then again, that person who is that God. I love that God, he keeps talking to me. Will you be happy? And live like these people? Will you be like them? This is what you want? It’s okay. But no, but Kennedy, you can help your community without being wealthy. Like you started with a soccer ball, look what you have done. You don’t need to make . . . If you want wealth for yourself, don’t use the community and say that I’m going to make money to help people. You will be greedy and wealth will never be enough. Just let you know, as you go to make wealth journey, you’ll get this and you’ll get this and you’ll get this. [laughs]

And you just heard that from, in your head basically.

Yes, yes. Yes.

Because there’s a lot of pressure in America, not only on every individuals, and any young kid. Go make money. Go make money. I mean, I got that pressure when I was just starting in America. Go, find a good job. Get a house, a car, get good clothes, all of these things. So you know, it’s not easy to say, “No, I am going to go there. I’m going to do what I want to do, which has no money involved.”

Yes.

In my case, I started Women for Women. In your case, you went back to not only Kenya, you went back to Kibera. The biggest slum in Africa. You decided after you graduated, being the first man to graduate from a University, American University in Kibera, you go back. What was that drive? That’s a courageous step.

Yeah, so really, for me, I also give back. At the same time, I . . . okay, but I don’t really do that, but I love something called covenant. So I talk to my God, okay? So I got to be clear, I will give a little to the community, but don’t make me suffer and don’t make my children to go back. If you believe in that, I am doing this what my heart want. But a job for you, don’t ever make me . . . I don’t want to be rich. I don’t want to be poor. I want my kids to go to school. To have a roof over their head, to live a normal life. That’s the [inaudible 00:40:33] from God. So I deal with him, a covenant. I’ll live my integrity life. I’ll do it, you know, because I want it.

The other one was to fool myself and be like, yes! I was going to be sad. So then Kibera, back the slum community where I came from, I felt that as someone, who never went to school and I got this scholarship. That’s a lie, my dear. I got it because of Kibera community. If not them I didn’t got it. Kennedy from Kibera, who is doing this amazing work in the community. We are giving him a scholarship. Not Kennedy, the smartest one who just did exam and pass and got all the A’s. So everything I owe to them.

Beautiful.

You got it?

Beautiful.

So they send me, to take that knowledge. America really gave me knowledge. America really also helped me to understand philanthropy, how it is bias. Right? And also taught me how to pitch. [laughs]

[laughs] Pitch a proposal. Pitch

You got it.

An idea, pitch. Yes, yes

Yeah. You got it in one minute.

Yes.

You have to get together like this. [inaudible 00:41:48] I was all good at that. You know what I mean? And also I met amazing people like Abby, and I want to say names of people, but Abby Disney. Amazing people who are really really, who also don’t care about their money. They don’t use it to social good. People also inspired me a lot. And they also, truth be told, something about them, they’re also good in giving. Give them courage. Many I meet there is something about giving, right?

They are so, I really learned that, I really was touched by that. And they are also, at the same time, it’s a country of individualism. It’s all about yourself. Right? But, sometime you meet people who are amazing. That country for me is boiling. You know, it’s not one part, right? You can’t say this America, you meet different people. I go to LA, I love LA. People don’t take the wrong, but I feel there’s less spirit. I mean, I’m sorry. I feel like, it’s a robot. Right? [laughs]

There you are. So you are like wow, you know. So you feel like and I’m like, guys there is life, beyond all this, you know? And as I finish, Zainab, one thing people, why I love living the life of kindness. So Zainab, when the last breath happens to many people and you go to their obituaries, no one talks about how many houses they owned! This is very interesting, right? A man resting here was a kind man and really that’s what is it. So you cannot be kind. My dear, you can be kind, whoever is listening to us. It is not who you know. The purpose of life is huge, but starts with you. Kindness, close your eye for me, not now, whenever you have your time. How do you want to be remembered? This is a lot of work, but in the last day of your life, do you want to think about all those money in the account, wealth, or were you a good person?

Great? And I think my dear, that’s it. That kindness, goodness, the templeness, temple, right? Are you inspiring people when they see you? Are you the man who was doing peace, or who wants to build peace. Or are you the one who was building bridges or destroying or building walls? I mean, and for me, my life, I know, you know, know, you know, Zainab. I feel like the God, whatever God is or spiritual, there is something they hide from us. Is hidden. And you have to work out, find out there’s something beautiful is hidden. And you see wealth, you see cars, you see beautiful housing, you see big apartments. And that’s what we have to see. Then you have to work hard and find your way, find your way, find your way and be like, whoa! It is not important.

None.

Why do you want to wait until the death to figure that out? I don’t want that, my dear. I’m sorry. Do you want to figure that out while I’m dying? No, no, no, no, no. The beauty of that is to figure that thing earlier and you will live just a joyful life.

So now Kennedy Odede, which in my belief, in the hearts of my heart, I believe you are the Mandela of the future. You are our Mandela right now because you are a beacon of hope. Not only in my life and I know firsthand in your community’s life, but I think in the world’s life as well, in Kenya’s life as well. So, you are a beacon of hope.

Since then, you have married Jessica. You came back to Kenya. You have three kids, as you mentioned. You’re still in Kibera, you know, working day and night. You work by the way, for those who have not been to Kibera, you walk and Kennedy is like, a new perspective. You feel the light and you feel the hope in Kibera. Especially as you enter Shofco. You are you know, getting one acknowledgement after the other, from major world leaders and movie stars and celebrities. How does, where are you now? How, do you want to leave us with. You know, where you are now in your life, after this story, from nothing to getting, you know, you just won a major award for your work, for your development work and you are becoming the expert, the voice on how do we go about development, community-based development.

Where do you feel now? How are you? What’s, where do you want to leave us with, the wisdom you want to leave us with?

Wow! Zainab, thanks so much. Zainab, I feel like we keep on learning every day, right? I think I was very hungry for things. And now, as I’m a family man, I feel I’m more relaxed. And I’ve also been able to learn that there is Kennedy and there is Nature. And I hope whoever is listening to us. I feel like we were moving too fast. And COVID, you would like to note, we don’t like it. What it did for us, what we learned from it. You are not the decision of life. You are a human being. You make your plan. That is not, that’s not it. There are many things and that’s how we should live our life.

We can have good plans and have that, but we are complex, you know, anything can happen. So I’ve learned a lot on that and that you cannot just go by the book as you want. And then right now I have girls in the US. Some of them went to Columbia University, you know, from Kibera. And I just want to really want to continue my work to inspire other community leaders. In a way, not only in Kenya, in Africa and people, and to believe that it’s all about dignity, dignity, dignity whatever you’re doing in your life, your job, it’s can be nonprofit. It can be in business. It can be in whatever you’re doing. Are you treating people with dignity?

[closing piano music]

That’s it. Simple like that. Dignity, your staff, your wife, your partner, is there dignity? If is no dignity. I’m sorry. You have to bring it up. So I see my life more about that.

That was Kennedy Odede. And that was the last episode of Redefined for this season. I’ll be taking a short break, but look forward to sharing more stories of truth and transformation on the third season of Redefined. To learn more about Kennedy’s incredible work, please check out www.shofco.org. That is S-H-O-F-C-O.org. For a full transcript of this episode and all others, please go to www.findcenter.com. You can follow FindCenter on Instagram @find_center. And of course you can follow me @ZainabSalbi. I look forward to connecting with you soon. Redefined is produced by me, Zainab Salbi, along with Rob Carso, Casey Kahn, and Howie Kahn at FreeTime Media. Our music is by John Palmer. Special thanks to Kate Dillon, Neal Goldman, Caroline Pincus, and Sherra Johnston. And thanks to all of you for listening.